animal protection: Fw: [petlaw] ==>> (CA) Notes from Senate Public Safety Hearing for AB241, AB242, AB243

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To: Brat Zinsmaster <brat.zinsmaster@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 3:49:54 PM
Subject: [petlaw] ==>> (CA) Notes from Senate Public Safety Hearing for AB241, AB242, AB243

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At 1:18pm, the call was lifted for AB241. The bill failed (3 - 3) as amended. Chairman Leno stated that "It makes it a two-year bill.."

AB241 (Nava): Dogs and Cats: Breeding For Sale

Nava opened his discussion on the bill by stating that he is trying to insure that we have our 50 dogs that are "breed-able" and that he will have additional discussions how to determine that. Leno next stated that this section of the bill shall not apply to a person's license as a dealer. Nava advised that he wants to have a conversation with the sponsor.

First to speak in support of AB241 was a man who identified himself as a senior law enforcement specialist with the United States. (My apology here. I was not able to hear his name.) He thanked Nava for introducing this legislation and informed that there are high volume breeders operating in Tehama, Riverside, Los Angeles, and San Luis Obispo counties. For example, he referred to World Kennels located outside of Palmdale where hundreds of dogs were found in filthy conditions in 2007. Two weeks later, World Kennels was given an "A" rating. Then, in 2008, upon returning to the same kennel for inspection, there were 402 dogs again in similar filthy conditions as before. He informed that the county ordered them to reduce their numbers to 100 dogs or be shut down. Currently, they are still in operation.

Next, this senior law enforcement specialist informed that there are approximately 800,000 dogs that are entering California shelters each year. Additionally, there are approximately 400,000 dogs being euthanized at a cost of a "quarter billion dollars per year."  He stated that one in four dogs is a purebred.

Staff and resources are inadequate. He cited a recent bust of a singular puppy mill that quickly added up to tens of thousands of dollars within weeks. He next informed that more legislation has been introduced in an astounding 34 states since there is a great concern about this bill.

Several of the usual supporters were in attendance.  A spokesperson for ASPCA (representing their 130,000 members) spoke in support.  Jennifer Fearing representing Coalition 12 is also in support. She did not state that she was a spokeswoman for the Humane Society of the United States. Patti Shanker, Judie Mancuso (Social Compassion in Legislation) , and Virginia Handley (Pawpac) were also in support of the bill.

First up to speak for the opposition was Bill Hemby (PetPAC). He opened by informing that what the proponents are testifying to today is a lot of "smoke and mirrors." The proponents would like you to believe that it will relieve conditions on large puppy farms.. He next cited a recent study completed in Nebraska. The largest of these kennels had the least number of violations. If this pertained to sheep or goats, 50 would not be a large number, yet when it comes to dogs, the proponents site these horrific puppy mill cases.

Bill informed that California has a plethora of laws to limit numbers of dogs in place already and there are various codes that can arrest a person for cruelty with which he is in agreement.  He stated the Department of Agriculture Animal Welfare Act has identified between 5 to 7 puppy mills in the State of California. All have been inspected more than a year ago and passed inspection.

Nava admitted that the Department of Agriculture is tasked with monitoring and inspecting kennels to insure they are not violating the Animal Welfare Act.

Bill Hemby informed that it is difficult to figure out if dogs are spayed or not as you cannot tell that unless there is a physical evaluation by a veterinarian. There is no way to tell without taking them all in and seeing an ultrasound.

He continued by stating that the HSUS who supports this bill is using this as a method of reducing dog and cat ownership in the United States. He cited the recent HSUS training seminar in Rochester, NY, in February 2009 whereby the "strategy" was explained to attendees. By lowering the cap each year, Patrick Kuan (HSUS speaker at Rochester seminar) likened it to "a misdemeanor at first and then increasng it to a felony."

Dr. Kay Henderson spoke next for the opposition on behalf of NAIA, the Del Sur KC of San Diego, and the Borzoi Club of California.  She opened by stating that California already has extensive cruelty, welfare, and nuisance laws in place. Nava is equating "size" with neglect and substandard care and that the two go hand in hand. Dr. Henderson advised that there is no inherent correlation between the two.

She continued by stating that AB241 would take away livelihood without accomplishing anything worthwhile for animals or society. We do not need a new law that discriminates but we need to enforce existing laws. The most effective laws are those for improving care and conditions yet AB241 seems to be focused only on numbers. This steretotyping by numbers persecutes many Californians who are law-abiding citizens.

Dr. Henderson cited a study done in 2008 in Nebraska where they divided large, medium and small operations (from 50 to 320 animals). 63% of the largest operations had perfect compliance initially as compared to 40% for smaller operations. Nebraska has 48 kennels that have more than 50 dogs each. Every one of the non-compliant kennels was corrected. Therefore, by enforcing the welfare laws, they got 100% compliance in Nebraska. She closed by stating that welfare and cruelty laws need to be enforced. She closed by requesting that the committee members either oppose or abstain.

Next to speak was a former animal control officer from Solano County.  She informed that the bill is misguided. She stated that we are all here for animal's rights. What we need are breeder's permits for people with spay and neuter contracts. She hates to see taxpayer's money spent in this area.

PIJAC representative offered an amendment that would exempt USDA breeders. He opposes AB241 without that amendment.

A representative of the lnternational Pet Association stated the bill penalizes many by the actions of a few. There are already laws on the books and this bill does nothing for public safety. The expense to enforce this is not going to happen in this time of economic crisis.

Leno next stated that he would like individuals in opposition to come forward and state their name and identification. He wants to keep everything balanced.

Speaking on behalf of the opposition was a Kern County Commissioner who stated that "It is a limit law and it is baseless." The commissioner informed the Public Safety hearing committee members present that Kern County Commissioners discussed this and instead chose to make effective changes to "Give our officers the teeth that they need."

Some of the others in opposition were Mr. Gaines (California Outdoor Heritage Alliance), Joan Greene, and Judythe Coffman (CFODC) who requested that the committee "Please do whatever to enforce animal cruelty laws as limit laws never work."

Senator Leno had a few questions for Nava with regard to the argument that a numerical limit does not get to the core of the problem. He stated that the trouble is one of behavior patterns. He asked Nava if he was familiar with the study done in Nebraska. Nava stated he was not familiar with the study and, furthermore, there was no way to know what happened in the study and who did it.

Nava wanted it noted that there has been no language proposed by the opponents. He next stated that he will let his witnesses in support of the bill explain why the number "50" is important.

The federal law enforcement official stated that "50 is a do-able number and is something arrived at with the assistance of responsible breeders. Over 50 is very difficult for anyone to provide care that a dog needs to receive." He continued by stating that breeding bitches are not socialized in these situations. He advised that there are several states that have already passed legislation with a ceiling of 75 dogs.

(A quorum is present.)

Leno wanted to know "What is a licensed breeder?" Nava's witness stated that there are breeders selling via internet that are skating under federal government and not licensed.

Leno again asked "Are there licensed breeders on the internet?" Nava's witness replied "To the best of my knowledge, there are some licensed breeders on the internet."

Again speaking in support was Jennifer Fearing (HSUS) who informed that there are hundreds of breeders who are not licensed through the internet or direct sales. Inspections are scant and the HSUS is not comfortable with this. There is only a small number of inspectors.

Nava's other witness stated that "There are 8300 facilities across the United States with 70 inspectors."

Judie Mancuso (Social Compassion in Legislation) informed that the "California Board of Equalization defines a breeder as anyone selling two or more dogs or cats per year and they are supposed to have a seller's permit as far as doing business. Then, local jurisdiction can have a local license for a business requirement. "

Leno asked who enforces existing state law? Nava stated that local animal control officers are responsible. The CACDA supports the bill.

Leno next stated it "Looks like we don't have statewide oversight as to how breeders must perform operations.  It almost seems to be a missing piece."

Senator Wright (Dem) says "There may be a staff of 200. You are picking a number and I don't see anything in the bill that discusses the condition of the dog." Wright indicated that he is voting "NO" because Nava has not made the case that "50" makes good sense.

Nava then tried to persuade Wright by making the comparison that Wright is an auto aficionado and that, while we have speed limits, that as well is an arbitrary situation. Wright stated that "This is not the case as there are safety engineers that measure what you could effectively handle for a given speed. The problem here is that the number to me is goofy.  If you are saying that this is the standard under which you keep the dog, but if you say you can only have 50 dogs, then what if I have a kennel with 500 dogs with lots of care."

Judie Mancuso immediately interrupted by stating "There are only a couple that work at these facilities" and then she got testy with Senator Wright by telling him she could take him to a place nearby as an example.

Nava then said "If we can reach agreement with respect to adult dogs."  Leno immediately replied that "I think we are heading in the right direction."

Nava stated that animals in breeding facilities are not licensed.  Animals in pet stores are not licensed as the license relates back to the owner.  Nava thinks "Animal control officers are able to judge age, condition of teeth, size and weight of an animal to render a professional opinion of age."

Leno has some of the same concerns as many of those today and will support the bill today but wants them to agree on adult dogs. He stated that "We do need a breeding structure and that would get to Senator Wright's concerns. If there were inspectors paid for by your fees to ensure quality of care, then there will probably be another conversation. " He continued by stating that he is sympathetic to some of the opposition voices that he heard today.

Nava accepts the offer of the Chairman's amendment.

At 10:36am, AB241 was placed "on call" in the California Senate Public Safety committee.  Senator Leno made the suggested amendment to Nava regarding the determination of adult dogs.  With that amendment, the vote is as follows:

Leno ... Yes (as amended)
Benoit ... No
Cedillo ... Yes (as amended)
Wright ... No

Leno informed the committee members that the Judiciary Committee will be using the room at 1:00pm today. At 1:06pm, the calls are lifted for the various bills heard today and votes are taken.

At 1:08pm, the call is lifted for AB241. Again, a vote is taken and the bill remains "on call."

The calls are lifted for AB242 and AB343.

AB242 is out (5 - 0).

AB243 is out (6 - 0).

At 1:16pm, Leno announced that AB241 would remain on call for "just a moment."

At 1:18pm, the call was lifted in the Senate Public Safety committee hearing.  The vote is as follows:

Leno ... Yes
Benoit ... No
Cedillo ... Yes
Hancock ... Yes
Huff ... No
Steinberg ... Not present
Wright ... No

California AB241 failed 3-3. Chairman Leno stated that "It makes it a two-year bill."

Thank you.
Brat Zinsmaster

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